tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post4917840192438677511..comments2024-03-29T00:44:52.884-07:00Comments on Audio Musings by Sean Olive: A Method For Training Listeners and Selecting Program For Listening TestsDr. Sean Olivehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-86751693906993345522010-11-20T09:17:25.638-08:002010-11-20T09:17:25.638-08:00Hi Valentin,
Our plans to release "How to Lis...Hi Valentin,<br />Our plans to release "How to Listen" were not cancelled - just delayed due to various reasons. We are aiming to release it December.Dr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-87694686273210233472010-10-15T12:21:22.545-07:002010-10-15T12:21:22.545-07:00sow its October
will the software be coming out o...sow its October<br /><br />will the software be coming out or has it been canceled<br />i would relly like to use it<br /><br />regards<br /><br />ValentinValentin Riverohttp://www.arquitecturaaural.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-89322860903355209742010-05-26T10:37:29.700-07:002010-05-26T10:37:29.700-07:00Nearing the end of May. Should we see this softwar...Nearing the end of May. Should we see this software soon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-65982775982991387692010-05-25T14:41:01.417-07:002010-05-25T14:41:01.417-07:00"It's coming sometime in May."
I..."It's coming sometime in May."<br /><br />I've been patiently awaiting its arrival. Any updates?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-76482156966457494112010-05-24T17:06:54.085-07:002010-05-24T17:06:54.085-07:00"It's coming soon (sometime in May). Hone..."It's coming soon (sometime in May). Honestly..<br /><br />Cheers<br />Sean" <br /><br />Training software<br /><br />cant wait :)Valentin Rhttp://www.arquitecturaaural.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-55076065573758499112010-03-19T20:44:59.813-07:002010-03-19T20:44:59.813-07:00Hi Anonymous,
In these experiments, we only studi...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br />In these experiments, we only studied linear distortions that are time and level invariant. I used the term "spectral distortion" because the training task was focussed on listeners learning to classifying the distortions based on frequency/amplitude/Q.<br /><br />Nonlinear distortions are different in that the properties of the distortions vary with input level and can change over time (e.g. a loudspeaker heating up). Nonlinear distortions create new spectral components that were not in the original signal. I suppose you could also call that spectral distortion but that's not what I'm referring to.Dr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-30710183672954463302010-03-19T18:08:47.961-07:002010-03-19T18:08:47.961-07:00Thanks Sean, I hate to keep knocking at the door, ...Thanks Sean, I hate to keep knocking at the door, but I really want to fully understand this...<br />why linear distortions and not nonlinear or distortion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-58482261571195093092010-03-18T21:47:24.464-07:002010-03-18T21:47:24.464-07:00Hi Anonymous,
Spectral distortions in the contex...Hi Anonymous,<br /><br /> Spectral distortions in the context of these experiments means linear distortions produced by the different equalizations.The equalizations change the frequency response of the playback chain and alter the original spectrum of the music signals evaluated. <br />Cheers<br />SeanDr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-90956355867536635232010-03-18T11:51:30.726-07:002010-03-18T11:51:30.726-07:00Hello Sean, can you please define spectral distort...Hello Sean, can you please define spectral distortions? Thanks, JasonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-45987484533079154842010-03-16T23:37:49.057-07:002010-03-16T23:37:49.057-07:00Hi Vuki,
The listener training teaches listeners ...Hi Vuki,<br /><br />The listener training teaches listeners to graphically draw the perceived spectral balance of any audio system (home, car, professional) in a more direct and efficient way compared to using descriptors such as full/thin, bright/dull, mid emphasis/de-emphasis, coloration ,etc<br /><br />After training, listeners become reliable spectrum analyzers.Dr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-76362961527242736642010-03-16T14:14:18.123-07:002010-03-16T14:14:18.123-07:00Hi Sean,
I still don't understand what's ...Hi Sean,<br /><br />I still don't understand what's the point of having the listeners trained to some loudspeaker reference? As I understand it, they are some form of unreliable spectral analyzer. <br /><br />Best regards,<br />VukiVukihttp://www.drzlab.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-58731015733878857672010-03-16T08:30:51.525-07:002010-03-16T08:30:51.525-07:00DR. Sean thanks
in Doctor Floyd book in page 39...DR. Sean thanks <br /><br /><br />in Doctor Floyd book in page 399 figure 18.17<br />he has a comparison of horn and direct radiator systems (JBL 1400 array, Revel studio, i think)<br /><br />and states that in double blind tests both would get equally good scores and would vary only with some "Program Material" i suppose this has to do with the directvity of the systems and the interaction of the room <br /><br />of course power is not an issue in this tests since both are powered at the same level<br /><br />so program as you state is extremely important in the lab results<br /><br />PD What is the reference level at Harman test and is there a test at higher volume does this change resultsValentinhttp://www.arquitecturaaural.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-12581905262026775932010-03-16T07:18:32.044-07:002010-03-16T07:18:32.044-07:00Thanks again Sean for allowing us a look through y...Thanks again Sean for allowing us a look through your window. This is level of transparency unseen in this industry.<br /><br />Slide 13 Program Material #2 and #5 are the same with different results. Is this part of the observed increases in listener training?<br /><br />Also, regarding the section Equalization Context Influences Listener Performance, I can imagine that an auto eq with an ability to recognize program material and set up the appropriate eq for that material would be worth the effort. At least academically.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12503482407084812894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-27119827144266740732010-03-15T15:49:50.621-07:002010-03-15T15:49:50.621-07:00Hi Valentin,
I would say there is more emphasis o...Hi Valentin,<br /><br />I would say there is more emphasis on max SPL for the Everest, achieved through its high efficiency compression driver/constant directivity horn. If you've heard these speakers, you will notice immediately that they will play very loud with very low distortion. Beyond that the design goals are much the same.<br /><br />Cheers<br />SeanDr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-27900355199050274902010-03-14T20:57:54.756-07:002010-03-14T20:57:54.756-07:00My curiodity is killing me
what are the slighty d...My curiodity is killing me<br /><br />what are the slighty diferent desingn objectives <br /><br />sorry for the of topicValentinhttp://www.arquitecturaaural.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-82805673294174242572010-03-13T11:28:24.302-08:002010-03-13T11:28:24.302-08:00Hi Vuki,
The problem with using live acoustic mus...Hi Vuki,<br /><br />The problem with using live acoustic music as a reference is that the recordings used to judge loudspeakers don't sound like these live events; indeed, most recordings of popular music purchased today are studio or ProTools creations that were never intended to have any resemblance to a live acoustic event.<br /><br />Secondly, we use a multiple comparison ( A/B/C/D) loudspeaker paradigm, which allows listeners to separate many of the distortions in the recordings from those in the loudspeakers. It becomes moot whether the recording is perfect, although we try to select recordings that are well-balanced and relatively neutral. Also, the listener training process familiarizes the listeners with the idiosyncrasies of the recordings to minimize loudspeaker-program interactions.<br /><br />The Revel Salon 2 (cone and dome with wide dispersion waveguide) and the JBL Everest (compression driver with constant directivity horn) are quite different loudspeaker designs with slightly different design objectives, so, not surprisingly, they sound different due to differences in their measured directivities, bass extension, and nonlinear distortion; apart from that they have the same same goals of flat on-axis and smooth off-axis response.Dr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-62088873458090918762010-03-13T03:47:46.232-08:002010-03-13T03:47:46.232-08:00Hi Sean,
I love your articles. But, since I'm...Hi Sean,<br /><br />I love your articles. But, since I'm not able to participate in your studies I can at least afford to criticize ;)<br />What puzzles me about all this trained listeners stories is what's their purpose. As I can tell listeners are trained to some reasonably flat measuring loudspeakers (or headphones?)? So, I understand that they are pretty good at discerning freq. resp aberrations and distortions, but their reference is reproduced sound? I know it's again about "circle of confusion", but shouldn't those listeners have live, unamplified music as the reference? <br /><br />And off-topic question - since Revel Salon 2 and JBL Everest are both from Harman's stable are they designed by the same "principles"? Because listening to them at last year High-End in Munich I got impression that their balance is quite different. <br /><br />Best regards,<br />VukiVukihttp://www.drzlab.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-56607509642958427152010-03-11T13:20:11.010-08:002010-03-11T13:20:11.010-08:00Hi Mark,
Yes, indeed. There are many scientific p...Hi Mark,<br /><br />Yes, indeed. There are many scientific papers in the literature where they use speech for sound quality experiments -- one of the least revealing programs of spectral distortions found in these tests.<br /><br />However, narrow band, spectrally sparse programs are useful for detecting other types of distortions and artifacts from perceptual codecs (MP3), and mechanical buzzes/rattles, electrical hum,etc because they provide little frequency and temporal masking of the artifacts. But they are not so good at revealing the most dominant distortions in loudspeakers and rooms: resonances and other frequency response problems.Dr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-29061328065855267752010-03-11T13:12:57.262-08:002010-03-11T13:12:57.262-08:00Hi Anonymous,
It's coming soon (sometime in Ma...Hi Anonymous,<br />It's coming soon (sometime in May). Honestly..<br /><br />Cheers<br />SeanDr. Sean Olivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-11757517337644627032010-03-11T12:39:01.823-08:002010-03-11T12:39:01.823-08:00Would love to try the software out and become a tr...Would love to try the software out and become a trained listener.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7172143857693272648.post-41429567052762695632010-03-11T12:33:06.035-08:002010-03-11T12:33:06.035-08:00"program selections are the largest factor in..."program selections are the largest factor influencing listener performance in this task: programs with continuous broadband spectra (e.g. pink noise, Tracy Chapman,etc) provide the best signals for characterizing spectral distortions whereas programs with narrow band spectra (e.g. speech, solo instruments) provide poor signals for performing this task."<br /><br />The above is another reason why the typical "auditioning" process advocated by audiophiles is so flawed: people choose the wrong music.<br /><br />Before reading your article, I would have thought that solo instruments, voices, and small instrumental combos and were particularly revealing of flaws. Just goes to show you what a little science can reveal -- that your intuition is incorrect by 180 degrees.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04166297801339611934noreply@blogger.com